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may83920 2007-12-20 23:29

再次推敲，对自己的翻译终不能满意。最后一句的名词和代词之间关系尚未明晰。"landowner"is the key to comprehension. What does it refer to?

seclusive 2007-12-20 23:56

QUOTE:
引用第148楼may83920于2007-12-20 23:09发表的“”:
村庄坐落在群山之间，山坡青草柔嫩，四处环绕山涧缓流的溪水全然不知外面广阔的海洋，就像三岁的孩子不谙成年的风风雨雨、百感交集。

<< The village stands far behind, and the streams that jog through the soft green valleys all about have as little knowledge of the seas as the three-year old child of the storms and passions of manhood. >>

欢迎 may83920 参加翻译练习

*******

原文的 far behind 怎么会理解成“群山之间”呢

valley 指“山谷”green valleys 译成“山坡青草柔嫩”不太准确

valleys all about 这里的 all about 是个短语 表示“到处，各处”应指“山谷中处处可见溪水缓缓流淌”

seclusive 2007-12-21 08:45
梦乡空气新鲜，风景秀丽，环境幽静；村民生活悠闲，淡泊名利，与世无争。令人心向往之，读书之乐在于可暂时远离尘嚣，神游仙境。

****************

这座村庄深处内陆，几条小溪缓缓流经它周遭绿油油的几座山谷。小溪对大海之不甚了了，正如三岁孩童对成人之盛怒与激情之不甚了了一般。四周乡野，绿草如茵，起伏不平，赏心悦目的乡村道路从四面八方经由此一村庄，通向遥远的乡镇，但无匆匆扺达之意。在这些乡村道路上，夏天里，云雀之声不绝于耳；在树篱上与干涸的沟渠里，鸟巢到处可见；在绿油油的河岸上与弯曲的河堤底下，蓝色花朵向过往的旅人微笑祝福。在这些道路上行走一年，你能遇见的只有乡村的两轮马车，与成群结队古铜色皮肤的孩童，他们从树林里走出来，手里拿着樱草花。因为居住在这个地区的人都很长寿，所以每隔很长一段时间才会见到黑色的送葬行列，自远处小村缓缓而来。对这位逝者，村民会站向一旁，虔敬地脱帽致哀。死神不常在这座村庄走动，如有人过世，他所受到的尊敬如同地主所受到的一般。

suxin108 2007-12-21 10:25
QUOTE:
引用第147楼seclusive于2007-12-20 22:32发表的“”:

这句汉语总体上很流畅 适合阅读

其中可供商榷之处如下

1）jog: To go or travel at a slow or leisurely pace (缓缓起伏的节奏).

storm: A strong or violent outburst, as of emotion or excitement

这句的 storm 和 紧接着的 passion 意思相近 都含有“情绪激动”之义

我觉得原文的 jog through 惟妙惟肖地再现了山谷幽涧流水缓缓穿行于曲径的景象 这是一幅宁静悠闲的画面 和后面的 storm/passion 那种猛烈的震荡/起伏形成鲜明对比 前面的 soft 也隐隐像征平和沉静
.......



嗯，对这个jog的确有误解，一直以为是很轻快的样子，没想到是缓慢从容的。

我想象的景色当中，山谷是很缓的坡，非常柔和的曲线，每寸土地上都覆着草。小溪流其实都是很细的那种，想不出有可以称得上“河”的水流。路上的小花儿缤纷斑斓得让人难以想象，只要是下过雨，或者略微潮湿的地方，都会有很多很多小花儿，每条溪的周边肯定都是花，所以觉得那个grassy banks是指小溪边上，而at the foot of the bowed dikes, 这里的dike应该是
“Chiefly British A low wall, often of sod, dividing or enclosing lands.
【多用于英国】 堤：一种常用草泥划分或围绕土地的低垅”
这个意思才对。肯定没有河。

呵呵，固执一回，为这幅心中的美景。

woshijack 2007-12-21 13:04

“与成群结队古铜色皮肤的孩童，他们从树林里走出来，手里拿着樱草花” 我不太赞同金先生此处的译文 首先肯定不是手里拿着樱草花 因为英文为 laden with primroses , 应该至少是脖子上 头上 身上都有 而此花的颜色也是黄色的 tawny应该是指花的颜色 并非孩子的肤色 也许有人要说 孩子们经常晒太阳才有这种颜色的 大家都知道一个影星叫古天乐 他的皮肤就是古铜色 那意味着只有黄皮肤的人晒过才能成的颜色 那孩子们显然都是白种人 要成古铜色一定得化学处理不可 呵呵

woshijack 2007-12-21 13:23
QUOTE:
引用第153楼suxin108于2007-12-21 10:25发表的“”:



嗯，对这个jog的确有误解，一直以为是很轻快的样子，没想到是缓慢从容的。

.......


我也赞同此处无河 溪水纤细的触角静悄悄划过我们的心灵深处 有河就太不雅的了

christina61 2007-12-21 13:31
Study is a personal matter that can be performed only by you. For most students, fortunately, studying is a congenial experience. The degree of satisfaction or pleasure that accompanies your study usually depends on the extent of the success attained.

You doubtlessly already know that one individual learns more quickly than another, and that what one learns can be used more profitably by him than what is learned by another. You may learn facts and be able to repeat them when requested; another individual not only can repeat the facts but can make use of these facts in constructive thinking. In short, study produces significant differences among individuals.

学习是个人的事情，也只有靠自己才能完成任务。幸运地是，对于大多数学生来说，学习是一段愉快的经历.而陪伴着学习的满意跟愉快程度，通常取决于获得成功的多少。
无庸致意，有些人比别人领悟得更快，有些人比别人能更有校地应用。也许你学的是皮毛，可以在需要的时候复述出来；而其他人不仅仅可以复述，还可以有自己的想法跟观念。简而言之，同样的学习，不同的人会有不同的收获。

seclusive 2007-12-21 15:33
QUOTE:
引用第152楼seclusive于2007-12-21 08:45发表的“No. 18 参考译文”:The village stands far behind, and the streams that jog through the soft green valleys all about have as little knowledge of the seas as the three-year old child of the storms and passions of manhood. The surrounding country is smooth and green, full of slopes and pleasant country roads strike through it in every direction, bound for distant towns and villages, yet in no hurry to reach them. In these roads the lark in summer is continually heard; nests are plentiful in the hedges and dry ditches; and on the grassy banks, and at the foot of the bowed dikes, the blue flower smiles its blessing on the passing traveler. On these roads you may walk for a year and encounter nothing more remarkable than the country cart, troops of tawny children from the woods, laden with primroses, and at long intervals -- for people in this district live to a ripe old age-- a black funeral creeping in from some remote hamlet; and to this last the people reverently take off their hats and stand aside. Death does not walk about here often, but when it does he receives as much respect as the landowner himself.

这座村庄深处内陆，几条小溪缓缓流经它周遭绿油油的几座山谷。小溪对大海之不甚了了，正如三岁孩童对成人之盛怒与激情之不甚了了一般。四周乡野，绿草如茵，起伏不平，赏心悦目的乡村道路从四面八方经由此一村庄，通向遥远的乡镇，但无匆匆扺达之意。在这些乡村道路上，夏天里，云雀之声不绝于耳；在树篱上与干涸的沟渠里，鸟巢到处可见；在绿油油的河岸上与弯曲的河堤底下，蓝色花朵向过往的旅人微笑祝福。在这些道路上行走一年，你能遇见的只有乡村的两轮马车，与成群结队古铜色皮肤的孩童，他们从树林里走出来，手里拿着樱草花。因为居住在这个地区的人都很长寿，所以每隔很长一段时间才会见到黑色的送葬行列，自远处小村缓缓而来。对这位逝者，村民会站向一旁，虔敬地脱帽致哀。死神不常在这座村庄走动，如有人过世，他所受到的尊敬如同地主所受到的一般。

这段文字所描述的景象 优美宁静 宛如世外桃源 人间仙境 我觉得译文比较忠实于原文

翻译文学作品时 虽然会掺杂译者的主观思想 但主要是针对主观比较强的文字而言 例如 思想 观点 等等 这种主观理解对 诗歌翻译的影响特别显著

上面这段文字基本上是客观景物描写 因此 我觉得 翻译时首先应按 金陵先生所云步骤进行 << 翻译步骤：1. 单字 2. 片语 3. 句构 4. 文意 5. 初译 6. 改译 7. 定稿 >> 首先确定关系整句意思理解的单词 和 短语 含义 然后分析句子结构 选取相应的目的语架构来转换 然后反复阅读原文和译文 看是否理解有误 意思是否通畅 逻辑是否合理 修改 使之畅达 亦即 信达雅 的翻译顺序 首先要满足第一个要求 信 这是整个翻译的基础 在此基础上才谈得上后两者

发挥主观想象 当然不错 但前提是充分理解原文基本意思 这样才不致出现偏差

因此 首先 直译出文意 然后再细读原文 揣摩修订 使文句通顺流畅 总体风格接近原文 如此 即便通畅略欠缺 但基本意思并未偏离原文 这比言辞流畅 然总体上和原文出入颇大的译文要好得多 记得以前看相关文字 鲁迅先生提倡的硬译即是针对文学翻译的随意想象而言的 虽有些矫枉过正 但也对当时译界的风气起着一定的矫正作用

其实本质上 翻译即是徘徊于 忠实和流畅两个互相矛盾而统一的要求上 如何满足这两个要求呢 我觉得 适当平衡 是最好的解决办法 译文既不偏于硬译般的晦涩难懂 也不偏于远离原文之意 就可以称之为好的译文 这种现象不仅存在于翻译 在其他行业（比如汽车轮胎对炭黑的要求 滞后和生热性能）也存在 最优的解决方式就是取得平衡

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具体分析这段文字

1）stands far behind 的理解 由昨天的讨论看来 我自己和其他缘者的理解都存在偏差 Mr. woshijack 的译文相对更接近原文意 << 村庄坐落在深远处 >>

由后面的文句看来 这段话主要是描述此“梦乡/The village”它远离尘嚣 宁静安祥 与世无争 是作者心目中的理想家园

far behind 并不是指The village 与 valleys 的距离很遥远

2）troops of tawny children from the woods, laden with primroses

下面这幅图片即是描述 Boy Scouts are laden with flowers meant to decorate the graves of veterans on Memorial Day in 1928. 的 我觉得译成“手里拿着樱草花”或“捧着”是可以的



3）and on the grassy banks, and at the foot of the bowed dikes, the blue flower smiles its blessing on the passing traveler.

这句的 bank 指的是溪岸 还是 河岸

原文出现了三处 green：the soft green valleys/ The surrounding country is smooth and green/ and on the grassy banks

grassy banks 是描述 The surrounding country is smooth and green 的景象 因此 我觉得这里并不是指“banks of the streams”而是描述 country/乡野 的景象 从紧接其后的 and at the foot of the bowed dikes 来看 我觉得这里的 banks 可能指 比小溪略宽的小河岸 下面是幅描述 Meugher Dike 的图片



4）Death does not walk about here often, but when it does he receives as much respect as the landowner himself.

这句理解起来并不困难 只要明确 it 是指代前面的 death 就不会弄错原意了

这句主要是转换成汉语时 如何使之流畅易懂 参考译文将后面的 it 处理成“如有人过世”我觉得是很好的转换 毫不晦涩难懂 因为这里如果译成“死神”显得不太通顺 从前面的文句来看 人人站在路旁脱帽致敬 显然是表示对死者很尊重 而上句的主句又用的是 he 在这里泛指死者 比较合理

这句的翻译涉及较多主观理解的参与 和前面纯粹描述外界景色文字的翻译有所不同 相对要难一点

seclusive 2007-12-21 15:55
QUOTE:
引用第154楼woshijack于2007-12-21 13:04发表的“”:
“与成群结队古铜色皮肤的孩童，他们从树林里走出来，手里拿着樱草花” 我不太赞同金先生此处的译文 首先肯定不是手里拿着樱草花 因为英文为 laden with primroses , 应该至少是脖子上 头上 身上都有 而此花的颜色也是黄色的 tawny应该是指花的颜色 并非孩子的肤色 也许有人要说 孩子们经常晒太阳才有这种颜色的 大家都知道一个影星叫古天乐 他的皮肤就是古铜色 那意味着只有黄皮肤的人晒过才能成的颜色 那孩子们显然都是白种人 要成古铜色一定得化学处理不可 呵呵

tawny: A light brown to brownish orange.

参见：白色人种
http://baike.baidu.com/view/660568.htm

白色人种肤色较白或是浅褐色，颧骨较高，鼻梁高而窄，胡子和体毛发达。（眼睛及头发颜色不属于白色人种特征，事实上除了雅利安人拥有浅色的眼睛及头发颜色外，其他闪人及高加索人皆黑色头发及深褐色的眼睛，而浅色的眼睛及头发颜色属于隐性基因，南欧及伊朗人多与闪人混血，所以今天这两地之白人多属黑色头发及深褐色的眼睛。）

白人的种族主要有雅利安人、闪人等。高加索山也有不被列入上述的种族，称为高加索人。

********

由上可见 西方人肤色并非均是白色 也可能是 浅褐色 用tawny来形容是完全可以的

tawny children 从用词和结构来看 不应指花的色彩

seclusive 2007-12-21 16:03
1. Translate the following passage into Chinese:

Few expected to see so large a man: he is gigantic, a six feet four at least; few expected to see so old a person; his hair appears to have kept silvery record over fifty years; and then there was a notion in the minds of many that there must be something dashing and "fast" in his appearance, whereas his costume was perfectly plain, the expression of his face grave and earnest, his address perfectly unaffected and such as we might expect to meet with in a well-bred man somewhat advanced in years. His elocution also surprised those who had derived their impressions from the English journals. His voice is a superb tenor, and possesses that pathetic tremble which is so effective in what is called emotive eloquence, while his delivery was as well suited to the communication he had to make as could well have been imagined.

His enunciation is perfect. Every word he uttered might have been heard in the remotest quarters of the room, yet he scarcely lifted his voice above a colloquial tone. The most striking feature in his whole manner was the utter absence of affectation of any kind. He did not permit himself to appear conscious that he was an object of peculiar interest in the audience, neither was he guilty of the greater error of not appearing to care whether they were interested or not.

***************

2. Translate the following passage into English:

英语并非像结构语言学者所想的那样，只是一种方便的沟通工具而己。一个民族的语言像它的艺术、文学、音乐与建筑一样，是与现在息息相关的一项历史记录。如果此种连系中断了，那么一个民族就像对过去失去记忆的精神病患的状况。用现代用语语译的圣经来替换詹姆士王钦定本圣经，就如同将莎士比亚名言更新为「我们面临存在与否的问题」。语言是一个民族的历史或文化中的一个特别重要的部分，因为每一个人置身其中，都必须学习使用它。文字的演变是一个种族历史的缩影（简史）。一个人阅读几页牛津英文字典，即可获得证明。常规与创新总是有着冲突，如社会太纵容，创新便轻而易举的占得优势，其结果是语言与它的过去脱节，因为它的含糊与空洞，常导致沟通失效。在嬉皮的俚语里，「老兄」与「如同」己沦为纯粹的支吾词，多是结结巴巴而少有语法。

woshijack 2007-12-21 16:20
多谢seclusive 指点 清楚多了

suxin108 2007-12-21 16:26
QUOTE:
引用第157楼seclusive于2007-12-21 15:33发表的“Re:No. 18 参考译文”:

这段文字所描述的景象 优美宁静 宛如世外桃源 人间仙境 我觉得译文比较忠实于原文

翻译文学作品时 虽然会掺杂译者的主观思想 但主要是针对主观比较强的文字而言 例如 思想 观点 等等 这种主观理解对 诗歌翻译的影响特别显著

.......



嘿嘿，我服您了。我承认自己翻译的时候不够忠于原作，对字词、句义的最基本分析不够认真，以后会改正了。谢谢。

woshijack 2007-12-21 16:49
嗯 这次又学到不少 怎么处理模棱两可的句子 可以尽量先写出各种想到的情况 再根据上下文定下哪句更为合适 因为写下后能够避免自己前思后想中所犯下的逻辑错误 尤其是对一些小词的处理 如上文中 for people live to a ripe old age 此处非常明显是应翻成因为 而如翻成为了的话 后面应该加名词 如果当时写下两种结果的话 就可以避免这种情况的出现 翻译不仅翻文字 更重要的是成为一个读脑专家 mind reader 这样才能信而不离 同时我们在训练翻译的时候 在最初阶段主要运用的是理性思维 如何更严谨准确 在这个过程中偶尔的感性思维 也就是我们常说想像思维再参与其中 对译文进行润色 最后是不怎么光顾我们的灵感思维 帮助我们灵机一动 让译文也变得灵气十足 这应该是建立在大量阅读 实践 与自己感受天与地 自然风光 用心体会去获得的 也是最难获得的 所以有人说译在功夫外 是也

suxin108 2007-12-21 17:31
No. 19 英汉互译段落练习

1. Translate the following passage into Chinese:

Few expected to see so large a man: he is gigantic, a six feet four at least; few expected to see so old a person; his hair appears to have kept silvery record over fifty years; and then there was a notion in the minds of many that there must be something dashing and "fast" in his appearance, whereas his costume was perfectly plain, the expression of his face grave and earnest, his address perfectly unaffected and such as we might expect to meet with in a well-bred man somewhat advanced in years. His elocution also surprised those who had derived their impressions from the English journals. His voice is a superb tenor, and possesses that pathetic tremble which is so effective in what is called emotive eloquence, while his delivery was as well suited to the communication he had to make as could well have been imagined.

His enunciation is perfect. Every word he uttered might have been heard in the remotest quarters of the room, yet he scarcely lifted his voice above a colloquial tone. The most striking feature in his whole manner was the utter absence of affectation of any kind. He did not permit himself to appear conscious that he was an object of peculiar interest in the audience, neither was he guilty of the greater error of not appearing to care whether they were interested or not.

***************
他如此魁梧，出人意料：他象个巨人，至少有六英尺四；他如此高龄，出人意料；他头发银白，似乎有半个世纪之久了；很多人觉得他的外表一定会有某种激情或者“快节奏”的痕迹，然而他穿着非常朴素，面部表情严肃认真，言语平实自然，就象我们一般会想象到的与稍微年长而有教养的人会面的情形。他的演讲才华也让那些通过英文杂志对他获取些许印象的人感到惊讶。他的嗓音是一种优秀的男高音，并有那种可以在以情动人的雄辩当中很起感人作用的颤音，而且他的演讲方式总是恰到好处地与交流话题相称，任你想象有多相称。

他的阐述完美无缺。他说的每个字，坐在房间最远角落的人都可听到，尽管他只用平时讲话的音量，很少抬高嗓音。在他所有风格当中，最打动人的特点，就是绝对没有任何造作。他不允许自己看上去仿佛知道自己是观众特别感兴趣的焦点，他也没有那种更不该发生的错误——表现出对观众的兴趣毫不在意。


2. Translate the following passage into English:

英语并非像结构语言学者所想的那样，只是一种方便的沟通工具而己。一个民族的语言像它的艺术、文学、音乐与建筑一样，是与现在息息相关的一项历史记录。如果此种连系中断了，那么一个民族就像对过去失去记忆的精神病患的状况。用现代用语语译的圣经来替换詹姆士王钦定本圣经，就如同将莎士比亚名言更新为「我们面临存在与否的问题」。语言是一个民族的历史或文化中的一个特别重要的部分，因为每一个人置身其中，都必须学习使用它。文字的演变是一个种族历史的缩影（简史）。一个人阅读几页牛津英文字典，即可获得证明。常规与创新总是有着冲突，如社会太纵容，创新便轻而易举的占得优势，其结果是语言与它的过去脱节，因为它的含糊与空洞，常导致沟通失效。在嬉皮的俚语里，「老兄」与「如同」己沦为纯粹的支吾词，多是结结巴巴而少有语法。

English is not as merely a convenient communication tool, as what the specialists in structural linguistics may believe. Like art, literature, music and architecture, the language of a nation is a kind of historical record closely linked to modern times. Should this link be interrupted, the nation would be in a status like a psychopath who has lost his memory. To replace the New King James Bible with any version of Bible in modern diction is like to update the wisdom of Shakespeare to such as “The problem we face is whether we are exist or not”. Language is a very important part of the history or the culture of a nation, because everyone wherein needs to learn to use it. The evolvement of the characters is a brief history of a nation. One can get the evidence by reading some pages of the Oxford English dictionary. Convention always conflicts with innovation. If the society indulges it too much, innovation would easily get superior, and it would turn out that the language get disjointed with its past, and that the ambiguity and inanition of the language frequently lead to invalid communication. In hippie slang, “kiddo” and “like” have already fallen into absolute equivocal words, more like stutter than expression.

may83920 2007-12-21 19:28
QUOTE:
引用第159楼seclusive于2007-12-21 16:03发表的“No. 19 英汉互译段落练习”:
1. Translate the following passage into Chinese:

Few expected to see so large a man: he is gigantic, a six feet four at least; few expected to see so old a person; his hair appears to have kept silvery record over fifty years; and then there was a notion in the minds of many that there must be something dashing and "fast" in his appearance, whereas his costume was perfectly plain, the expression of his face grave and earnest, his address perfectly unaffected and such as we might expect to meet with in a well-bred man somewhat advanced in years. His elocution also surprised those who had derived their impressions from the English journals. His voice is a superb tenor, and possesses that pathetic tremble which is so effective in what is called emotive eloquence, while his delivery was as well suited to the communication he had to make as could well have been imagined.

His enunciation is perfect. Every word he uttered might have been heard in the remotest quarters of the room, yet he scarcely lifted his voice above a colloquial tone. The most striking feature in his whole manner was the utter absence of affectation of any kind. He did not permit himself to appear conscious that he was an object of peculiar interest in the audience, neither was he guilty of the greater error of not appearing to care whether they were interested or not.
.......


没料到他这么高大，简直巨人一般，至少6.4英尺（约1.95米）；也没想到他年纪这么大了，从头发看，明显他已百岁高龄；还有人会想，他肯定是个外表浮华生动的人。实际上他衣着朴素，无可挑剔；神情庄重，致辞自然，正象想象中教养深厚的长者那样。他善于雄辩，这让那些在英文报刊上认识他的人感到吃惊。他的声音如男高音一样完美，颤音扣人心弦，达到了传情的效果，胜于雄辩；而言辞充分表达了交流想要达到的意愿。
他发音纯正，吐字清晰，几乎不用提高嗓门，也能让所有的人都听到，即使是坐在最偏远的角落里。他举止最突出的特征是毫无造作之感。把自己视为观众关注的焦点，他不会让人觉得是这样，也不会为没有顾及观众是否对此感兴趣而自觉有愧。

may83920 2007-12-21 21:01
2. Translate the following passage into English:

英语并非像结构语言学者所想的那样，只是一种方便的沟通工具而己。一个民族的语言像它的艺术、文学、音乐与建筑一样，是与现在息息相关的一项历史记录。如果此种连系中断了，那么一个民族就像对过去失去记忆的精神病患的状况。用现代用语语译的圣经来替换詹姆士王钦定本圣经，就如同将莎士比亚名言更新为「我们面临存在与否的问题」。语言是一个民族的历史或文化中的一个特别重要的部分，因为每一个人置身其中，都必须学习使用它。文字的演变是一个种族历史的缩影（简史）。一个人阅读几页牛津英文字典，即可获得证明。常规与创新总是有着冲突，如社会太纵容，创新便轻而易举的占得优势，其结果是语言与它的过去脱节，因为它的含糊与空洞，常导致沟通失效。在嬉皮的俚语里，「老兄」与「如同」己沦为纯粹的支吾词，多是结结巴巴而少有语法。

English is not as what structuralist suspected---just a tool of communication. For a nation, language is a record of history closely connected with the present, same as arts, literature, music and architecture is. When its connection with the past gets broken off, the nation suffers in the way of an insane person who has his memory lost. To substitute modern-time version of Bible for King James' Authorized Version is to replace Shakespeare's well-known saying with "We are faced with the problem of existence or nonexistence". language constitutes a great part of a nation's history and culture, in that, each individual has to study it for a living. The evolution of written language is the epitome or survey of a race's past. This can be confirmed by consulting Oxford English dictionary, and you will see with just a few pages. There always exists conflict between convention and renovation. The latter readily takes the lead, when the society is too indulged in it. As a result, language becomes disjointed with its history, too inexplicit and empty to achieve good communication. In liberal slang, "old chap" and "like" have been reduced to pure faltering utterance, without any sense of grammar.

seclusive 2007-12-21 21:22
QUOTE:
引用第164楼may83920于2007-12-21 19:28发表的“Re:No. 19 英汉互译段落练习”:
Few expected to see so large a man: he is gigantic, a six feet four at least;

V1：他如此魁梧，出人意料：他象个巨人，至少有六英尺四；
V2：没料到他这么高大，简直巨人一般，至少6.4英尺（约1.95米）；

*********

参见：咬文嚼字：2006年出现频率最高的十大语文差错
http://www.zftrans.com/bbs/read.php?tid=8409&fpage=&toread=&page=6 第56楼

象 ---> 像

*********

V1 对被动语态 Few expected/出人意料 的处理 比较好 行文自然 合乎汉语表达习惯

V2 对被动语态的转换略有不足 比如“没料到”前缺乏主语 原文重点不在于强调 expect 的发出者 而是后面的 a man 因此以 a man 为主语 如V1那般处理 则很不错 “简直巨人一般”宜用“简直像/如”来表达 虽然前者在口语中也有使用 但不甚规范

V1 的“至少有六英尺四”和 V2 的“6.4英尺（约1.95米）”均未译出这个尺寸代表的是什么 是长度 宽度 还是 高度呢 因此 在汉语里 属于病句

V2将英尺转换成国际单位制 这是很好的做法 特别是在科技文献中 这种转换往往是必要的

suxin108 2007-12-21 21:56
身高的问题记得了，是想说身高来着，写着就忘了，检查竟也没觉得。

“象”和“像”，才知道本字应该是“像”。只是现在都通用了吧。不过以后会记得写“像”。

象
xiàng
〈动〉
假借为“像”。类似;好像 [resemble;be like;take after]
见乃谓之象。又,象也者,像此者也。——《易·系辞》
象者,各辨一及之义者也。——《易·略例》
物生而后有象。——《左传·僖公十五年》
天象盖笠。——《周髀算经》
女必象汝。——清·林觉民《与妻书》

seclusive 2007-12-21 22:56
QUOTE:
引用第167楼suxin108于2007-12-21 21:56发表的“”:
身高的问题记得了，是想说身高来着，写着就忘了，检查竟也没觉得。

“象”和“像”，才知道本字应该是“像”。只是现在都通用了吧。不过以后会记得写“像”。
.......

不是“通用”应该说 是大众的误用 类似于英文中的常见错误 (common errors) 故而才会名列“2006年出现频率最高的十大语文差错”

以“象”来表示“像”误用得如此厉害 以至于真伪莫辨矣 不过 就网络上 乃至 正方论坛上 层出不穷的错别字而言 这只是小巫见大巫罢

错别字 好比 一件干净衣服上的污渍 又如 美食上嗡嗡飞舞的苍蝇 在某些情况下 似无大害 然在另一些场合 则是耻辱

尽量减少错别字的有效做法是 写完后仔细读一遍 觉得似乎不对劲的字 查查字典 要注意的是 查词软件上（比如 金山词霸 其上的汉英错字很多）的字典也可能出错 网上的信息来源更是真假掺杂 最好多查几处 互相比较 才好分辨真伪

查 权威出版社（商务出版社出版的字典 出错率最低）出版的纸质字典是最可靠的办法 当然这须要沉静 不浮躁的心 而这正是这个时代最为缺乏的东西

suxin108 2007-12-21 23:03
好的，知道了，多谢！

woshijack 2007-12-22 10:51
几乎没人想到他会是个大块头，像巨人似的，少说也有6.4英尺的个头; 而几乎也没人想到他会是个糟老头， 似乎头上银丝也五十岁有余；然后对此，很多人心里有了这样的感觉：他的样子，潇洒而利落；而他的穿着却朴素无奇，脸上表情严肃而认真，讲演自然而真挚，似我们从略长我们几岁且受过良好教养的长者处期许而来的谆谆叮咛。他妙语连珠，语出惊人，连很多从英文刊物上得其印象的人也惊讶不已。他嗓音优美，男高音中带着能撩起人同情心的颤音，极富感染力地传递着他丰富的情感。而且，他也尽其所能， 展现出最合宜的讲演风格，来与之必须要达成的交流形成默契。
他吐字清晰，声调抑扬顿挫。每个单词，从他嘴角蹦发而出，或许在房间最远的角落里也能听到，然而他很少扬起嗓门，使用高于聊天感觉的声调。在他整个言谈举止中给人印象最深的是其毫无矫饰造作之感。他既不让自己感觉到观众对其有好奇之心，也不对那更大的过失感到惭愧，即掩饰自己对听众是否感兴趣的在意之情。


English is not just no more than a tool for communication, as structural linguists think. The language of a nation, just like its art, literature, music and architecture, is a historic record that is closely linked with the present. Without the link, a nation would be in a state of losing the recollection of its past and being mentally ill. And the new version of bible which is translated in the modern language would take as the place of that of King James as the sentence that we face the problem of being or being not of the famous quotation by Shakespeare. Language plays an important role in a nation’s history or culture, for everyone is finding himself in it and has to learn to use it. The evolution of a language actually stands for the miniature history of a race and this can be proved immediately if one pores over a few pages of Oxford English dictionary. There are always conflicts between conservativeness and innovation and when the society is too tolerable, innovation then can easily have advantage over conservativeness. Consequently, language will not be compatible to its past, for its ambiguity and vacuousness frequently lead to ineffective communication. In a conversation featuring funny slang, “bro” and “like” have already become nothing but words like ”uh…” and people are faltering without grammar.

今天翻译晚了点传上来 这两天有点忙 明天要出去一趟 不知能不能坚持完成作业 这里分析中译文中的一句话： 英文在原文中的 such as ....如写全应该为his address was such as we might expect to meet with in a well-bred man somewhat advanced in years 如再进一步细写出来应该为 his address was such an address that we might expect to meet with in a well-bred man somewhat advanced in years. 所以理解此句话时千万不要忽略了介词 in 这里表示从某人那得来之意 meet with后面的宾语应该是 address

may83920 2007-12-22 14:01
QUOTE:
引用第170楼woshijack于2007-12-22 10:51发表的“”:
几乎没人想到他会是个大块头，像巨人似的，少说也有6.4英尺的个头; 而几乎也没人想到他会是个糟老头， 似乎头上银丝也五十岁有余；然后对此，很多人心里有了这样的感觉：他的样子，潇洒而利落；而他的穿着却朴素无奇，脸上表情严肃而认真，讲演自然而真挚，似我们从略长我们几岁且受过良好教养的长者处期许而来的谆谆叮咛。他妙语连珠，语出惊人，连很多从英文刊物上得其印象的人也惊讶不已。他嗓音优美，男高音中带着能撩起人同情心的颤音，极富感染力地传递着他丰富的情感。而且，他也尽其所能， 展现出最合宜的讲演风格，来与之必须要达成的交流形成默契。
他吐字清晰，声调抑扬顿挫。每个单词，从他嘴角蹦发而出，或许在房间最远的角落里也能听到，然而他很少扬起嗓门，使用高于聊天感觉的声调。在他整个言谈举止中给人印象最深的是其毫无矫饰造作之感。他既不让自己感觉到观众对其有好奇之心，也不对那更大的过失感到惭愧，即掩饰自己对听众是否感兴趣的在意之情。


English is not just no more than a tool for communication, as structural linguists think. The language of a nation, just like its art, literature, music and architecture, is a historic record that is closely linked with the present. Without the link, a nation would be in a state of losing the recollection of its past and being mentally ill. And the new version of bible which is translated in the modern language would take as the place of that of King James as the sentence that we face the problem of being or being not of the famous quotation by Shakespeare. Language plays an important role in a nation’s history or culture, for everyone is finding himself in it and has to learn to use it. The evolution of a language actually stands for the miniature history of a race and this can be proved immediately if one pores over a few pages of Oxford English dictionary. There are always conflicts between conservativeness and innovation and when the society is too tolerable, innovation then can easily have advantage over conservativeness. Consequently, language will not be compatible to its past, for its ambiguity and vacuousness frequently lead to ineffective communication. In a conversation featuring funny slang, “bro” and “like” have already become nothing but words like ”uh…” and people are faltering without grammar.
.......


This gentleman, may I address you as Jack? 你的译文很有学习之处。我有点吃惊的是，怎么会翻出个“ 糟老头” 来？这跟本文的感情色彩似乎不太协调。其实接下来的内容明显是在称颂，开头引入大家对“他”的猜想，是为下面的描述铺垫---他老当益壮。如果从欲扬先抑的角度，这里应该也不是。

woshijack 2007-12-22 14:21
QUOTE:
引用第171楼may83920于2007-12-22 14:01发表的“”:


This gentleman, may I address you as Jack? 你的译文很有学习之处。我有点吃惊的是，怎么会翻出个“ 糟老头” 来？这跟本文的感情色彩似乎不太协调。其实接下来的内容明显是在称颂，开头引入大家对“他”的猜想，是为下面的描述铺垫---他老当益壮。如果从欲扬先抑的角度，这里应该也不是。


个人认为此处我使用“糟老头”并无贬低之义 只是强调听众看到的与听众心中所想不同 听众原以为演讲者会是个小伙子之类的 如果觉得糟字不好 去掉就好了 就使用 老头 二字便是 这样不易让人产生谬误之感 谢谢提出见解 以后的译文中我会更加小心谨慎 接受您的批评

seclusive 2007-12-22 20:25
按：英译汉为 金陵先生所译 汉译英为回译 以下为原文

这两段文字是台湾相关翻译研究所的笔译专业入学仿真试题 诸位缘者对照大陆相应翻译专业的入学考试 不难看出其要求的高低层次

************

很少人预料见到如此高大的一个人：他身材魁梧，身高至少也有六呎四吋。很少人预料见到年纪如此大的一个人，他的头发看起来已花白了五十多年。此外，在很多人的心目中，他的外表必定有些时髦和「放荡」的样子，但是，相反的是他衣着十分朴素，面部的表情严肃而诚挚，他的演讲十分自然，他具有我们可能遇到的年高德劭者的特征。他的口才令某些人惊讶，因为那些人对他的印象是来自英国一些杂志的报导。他的声音如同一位一流的男高音，而且具有一种激发怜悯的颤抖，此种特色对所谓善于激发情感的口才非常有效。正如人们想像的那样，他的表达技巧非常适合于他要从事的沟通。

他的发音完美。人们既使坐在演讲场地最远的角落里，都可以听到所说的每一个字，而他却像平常讲话一样，极少提高嗓门。在他整个演讲的过程中，最引人注意的特色是完全没有任何矫揉造作。他未曾表现出他意识到他是听众特别感到兴趣的人物，他更未曾忽略显露出他的关切，关切听众对他的演讲是否感到兴趣。

注：原文标题是Thackeray as a Speaker（萨克莱的演说才华），作者为美国诗人William Cullen Bryant（1794 ～1878）。Thackeray 的全名是：William Makepeace Thackeray （1811～1863），是英国小说家，浮华世界（Vanity Fair）是他的名著。

*************

English is not just a convenient means of communicating, as the Structural Linguists seem to think. The language of a people, like its art and literature and music and architecture, is a record of its past that has much to say to the present. If this connection is broken, then a people gets into the condition of a psychotic who has lost contact with his past. Superseding the King James Version of the Bible with a translation in the modern idiom is like updating Shakespeare -- "The problem of existence or non-existence confronts us." Language is a specially important part of a people's past, or culture, because everybody is exposed to it and has to learn to use it. The evolution of words is a capsule history of the race, as one can verify by reading a few pages of the Oxford English Dictionary. There is always a struggle between tradition and novelty. If the society is too permissive, novelty has it too easy and the result is language that has lost contact with its past and that is usually ineffective as communication because it is vague and formless -- in hippie slang “man” and “like” have degenerated to mere interruptions, more stammer than grammar.

**********

看了 金陵 先生的译文 感到自己的英译汉能力还有很多待提高 首先是字词理解的准确 金先生的译文可算是透彻理解原文后的适当转换 个别用词如“感到兴趣”估计是港台的遣词习惯 和 大陆的“感兴趣”有所不同

1）昨晚讨论的英译汉第一句：

Few expected to see so large a man: he is gigantic, a six feet four at least; few expected to see so old a person; his hair appears to have kept silvery record over fifty years; and then there was a notion in the minds of many that there must be something dashing and ”fast” in his appearance,

这句中 few 和 后面的 many 均为代词（pron.）作主语 expect 为谓语 我原来把 expected 误解成了被动语态 这是基本错误

few: (used with a pl. verb): A small number of persons or things:

For many are called, but few are chosen(Matthew 22:14)

由于后面有 many 和 few 相对比 我认为 金先生将其处理成“很多人”“很少人”比较准确

2）在汉译英文字中 文中最后一句的 like 表示“「如同」己沦为纯粹的支吾词”的典故可参见以下资源

Common Errors in English
http://www.zftrans.com/bbs/read.php?tid=11981&page=e&fpage=1#a 第227楼

3）汉译英文字中 莎士比亚这句话“The problem of existence or non-existence confronts us.”的原句为：To be, or not to be--that is the question.

具体出处请参见：to be or not to be 的出处在那里？它是什么意思？
http://www.zftrans.com/bbs/read.php?tid=14055

4）这段英文用词很洗炼（concise）有许多值得学习处 如

have much to say to, have it

people 表示“民族”时 有单复数的变化(a people/ peoples) 可使用不定冠词 a

may83920 2007-12-22 20:55
谢谢提供参考译文。英译汉的最后一句。对照原文和译文，还是不太理解。

seclusive 2007-12-22 20:56
Translate the following into Chinese:

A History of Thanksgiving Day

The Pilgrims celebrated their first American harvest in October 1621, their first autumn on the New Continent. Their Indian guests were seated around tables of game, fish, fruit, corn-bread and vegetables from their own gardens. Of course, wild turkey was in bountiful supply as the new settlers found "great stores" of the bird around Plymouth.

The year following the first feast the settlers held no celebration. A long drought withered the crops in the fields and only the arrival of a supply ship saved the colonists from starvation. The governor appointed a day of "public thanksgiving" but this also differed from what we now know as Thanksgiving because there was no feast following the church service.

Although there were feasts, fasts and "thanksgiving days" every year, it was not until ten years later that a festival similar to today's was recorded. The record tells of a town meeting in the meetinghouse with psalm singing, prayer and a sermon. After the service the settlers went about "making merry."

For years the festival was an almost uniquely New England institution, being observed in churches with sermons containing a highly political message. The day slowly spread to the Western and Southern states, where each established its own day of observance. For more than 100 years the festival was celebrated on different days by the different states. It wasn't until President Lincoln proclaimed the last Thursday in November as a day of national thanksgiving that the whole country celebrated Thanksgiving on the same day.

That tradition was followed by every president until 1939. When President Roosevelt named the next to last Thursday in November as the date of celebration. Roosevelt's wish to lengthen the time between Christmas and Thanksgiving was changed back to the fourth Thursday by a congressional resolution in 1941.

(From Tuesday, November 24, 1987 China Post)

may83920 2007-12-22 20:59
He did not permit himself to appear conscious that he was an object of peculiar interest in the audience, neither was he guilty of the greater error of not appearing to care whether they were interested or not.
后半句的 “greater"比较的是什么呢？

seclusive 2007-12-22 21:24
QUOTE:
引用第174楼may83920于2007-12-22 20:55发表的“”:
谢谢提供参考译文。英译汉的最后一句。对照原文和译文，还是不太理解。

<< He did not permit himself to appear conscious that he was an object of peculiar interest in the audience, neither was he guilty of the greater error of not appearing to care whether they were interested or not. >>

V1：他未曾表现出他意识到他是听众特别感到兴趣的人物，他更未曾忽略显露出他的关切，关切听众对他的演讲是否感到兴趣。

V2：他既不让自己感觉到观众对其有好奇之心，也不对那更大的过失感到惭愧，即掩饰自己对听众是否感兴趣的在意之情。

V3：把自己视为观众关注的焦点，他不会让人觉得是这样，也不会为没有顾及观众是否对此感兴趣而自觉有愧。

V4：他不允许自己看上去仿佛知道自己是观众特别感兴趣的焦点，他也没有那种更不该发生的错误——表现出对观众的兴趣毫不在意。

********

最后一句前半部分容易理解些 后半部分是难点

1）先分析前半句

<< He did not permit himself to appear conscious that he was an object of peculiar interest in the audience, >>

以上译文 除了V2可能将 conscious（有意识的） 错解成 curious（好奇的） 从而导致理解偏差以外 其他几个版本基本意思大同小异 只是转换成汉语的流畅有别而已

V3 << 把自己视为观众关注的焦点，他不会让人觉得是这样 >> 这种表达不太符合汉语的习惯 倒有点像西化汉语

2）下半句难点分析

<< neither was he guilty of the greater error of not appearing to care whether they were interested or not. >>

这是个倒装句 否定意义词 neither 位于句首 后面部分转换成一般疑问句形式

neither 用作连词 意为：Also not

be guilty of: 有……罪（如：guilty of cheating）

greater error 用了比较级是和前面的演讲常见错误“conscious that he was an object of peculiar interest in the audience”相比较 表示这种过错更糟

guilty of the greater error 连起来的字面意思就是：有犯更大错误的罪

“not appearing to care whether they were interested or not”这是说明前面的 greater error到底是什么：表现出不关心听众是否对演讲内容感兴趣（自说自话）

由以上分析不难得出这半句的意思：他也不会犯毫不关心听众是否对演讲内容感兴趣这个更大的错误。/ 他也不会犯这个更大的错误——毫不关心听众是否对演讲内容感兴趣。

由上看来 V1和V4基本上传达了原文意思

V2 和 V3 对 be guilty of 这个短语意思理解有误 这里的 guilty 到底应取何义（惭愧/犯罪）其实通过仔细阅读原文 从逻辑上推敲 也可以明了 这是译者应常练习的 否则会因一字误解 使译文和原文意差之千里

may83920 2007-12-22 23:09
QUOTE:
引用第175楼seclusive于2007-12-22 20:56发表的“No. 20 圣诞 英译汉短文练习”:
西洋 圣诞节 临近 此期特为应景矣

**********

Translate the following into Chinese:
.......

  1621年10月，朝圣者庆祝来到新大陆后的第一个秋季、第一个美洲丰收节。他们请土著印第安人来做客，围坐在摆满食物的桌子边，有猎物、鱼肉、水果、玉米面包、自家园子里产的蔬菜，当然还有火鸡。自从这群新来的拓荒者在普利茅斯附近发现了巨大的火鸡聚集地，他们就有了充足的火鸡供应。
  第二年，移居者们没有举行庆祝宴会。天持续干旱，田里的庄稼都枯萎了。仅靠救援的船只运来粮食，他们才没有饿死。统治者指定一个日子做为“全民感恩节”，但那时的感恩节在教堂仪式后没有盛宴举行，和现在我们熟知的也有区别。
  尽管接下来每年都有盛宴、斋戒和感恩节，但把这个节日写进记录是在十年之后。记录描绘了移居者聚集在礼拜场所，唱圣歌、祷告、布道，仪式结束后，他们四处走动，尽享乐趣。
  曾有若干年，感恩节几乎是新英格兰的专属，仪式在教堂里举行，传道传递很浓的政治信息。慢慢地，这个节日传到西部和南部诸州，每个州都自设日期。一百年来，各州庆祝的日子各有不同。直到总统林肯宣布把11月的最后一个星期四作为全国感恩节，这个节日才统一到同一天。
  历届总统都秉承这一传统，直到1939年，总统罗斯福指定11月最后一个星期的前一个星期四为庆典之日，旨在延长圣诞节和感恩节相隔时间。但1941年议会通过一项决议，把感恩节又改回到第四个星期四。

suxin108 2007-12-22 23:10
QUOTE:
引用第173楼seclusive于2007-12-22 20:25发表的“No. 19 参考译文”:
按：英译汉为 金陵先生所译 汉译英为回译 以下为原文

这两段文字是台湾相关翻译研究所的笔译专业入学仿真试题 诸位缘者对照大陆相应翻译专业的入学考试 不难看出其要求的高低层次

************
.......



…while his delivery was as well suited to the communication he had to make as could well have been imagined.
正如人们想像的那样，他的表达技巧非常适合于他要从事的沟通。

这句费解。可否变成：
His delivery was as well suited to the communication he had to make, as well people could have imagined.

总觉得后面这个well多余似的，不知要搁哪儿才好。

may83920 2007-12-22 23:22
QUOTE:
引用第177楼seclusive于2007-12-22 21:24发表的“”:

<< He did not permit himself to appear conscious that he was an object of peculiar interest in the audience, neither was he guilty of the greater error of not appearing to care whether they were interested or not. >>

V1：他未曾表现出他意识到他是听众特别感到兴趣的人物，他更未曾忽略显露出他的关切，关切听众对他的演讲是否感到兴趣。

.......

您的解说，详尽真切。大师风范，让我无比敬佩！翻译学习的路上，有您指点，我倍受鼓舞！   Much appreciated!

woshijack 2007-12-22 23:25
V2：他既不让自己感觉到观众对其有好奇之心，也不对那更大的过失感到惭愧，即掩饰自己对听众是否感兴趣的在意之情。
注意看这句话的译文：此处我并没有把conscious 错解成 curious ,此处我只是把conscious处理为“感觉到” 感觉到就是意识到 好奇之心其实是对peculiar interest的翻译 peculiar 通常指的是 特别的 奇怪的 所以peculiar interest 的意思就是特别的或奇怪的兴趣 也就是好奇 对奇怪别致的东西特别有兴趣

再让我们来看这句话： not appearing to care whether they were interested or not 请注意第一个not的位置 它不是出现在to care 之前 如果是appearing not to care whether they were interested or not 那自然译为表现出不关心听众是否感兴趣 可此次是not appearing to care.... 自然应译为不表现出关心听众是否感兴趣 不表现出来 自然就是 去掩饰 还有这里只是指greater mistak是更大的错误 根本就谈不上去犯罪 如果greater mistake 被换为crime 的话 立马是犯罪 不然的话此话一定是指惭愧 这样也符合常理才对
我只是不想让观众知道我对他们的看法 就被认为有罪 那也太夸张了

我对金先生此次的译文 有很多还没太明白的地方 他译得有点难懂 待仔细对照原文 再来讨论

may83920 2007-12-22 23:42
QUOTE:
引用第181楼woshijack于2007-12-22 23:25发表的“”:
V2：他既不让自己感觉到观众对其有好奇之心，也不对那更大的过失感到惭愧，即掩饰自己对听众是否感兴趣的在意之情。
注意看这句话的译文：此处我并没有把conscious 错解成 curious ,此处我只是把conscious处理为“感觉到” 感觉到就是意识到 好奇之心其实是对peculiar interest的翻译 peculiar 通常指的是 特别的 奇怪的 所以peculiar interest 的意思就是特别的或奇怪的兴趣 也就是好奇 对奇怪别致的东西特别有兴趣

再让我们来看这句话： not appearing to care whether they were interested or not 请注意第一个not的位置 它不是出现在to care 之前 如果是appearing not to care whether they were interested or not 那自然译为表现出不关心听众是否感兴趣 可此次是not appearing to care.... 自然应译为不表现出关心听众是否感兴趣 不表现出来 自然就是 去掩饰 还有这里只是指greater mistak是更大的错误 根本就谈不上去犯罪 如果greater mistake 被换为crime 的话 立马是犯罪 不然的话此话一定是指惭愧 这样也符合常理才对
我只是不想让观众知道我对他们的看法 就被认为有罪 那也太夸张了
.......

Jack, 这里我认为 “好奇”和 “兴趣”是不能替换的。如果说我会为别人对我感兴趣而得意的话，我得意的是“兴趣” 而不是别人对我的好奇（难道我哪里怪怪的？）

woshijack 2007-12-23 01:04
一． He did not permit himself to appear conscious that he was an object of peculiar interest in the audience, neither was he guilty of the greater error of not appearing to care whether they were interested or not.
v1他未曾表现出他意识到他是听众特别感到兴趣的人物，他更未曾忽略显露出他的关切，关切听众对他的演讲是否感到兴趣。
V2 他既不让自己感觉到观众对其有好奇之心，也不对那更大的过失感到惭愧，即掩饰自己对听众是否感兴趣的在意之情。
我仔细对照了V1金先生下半句中的译文： 即 neither 对应的是未曾 guilty of the great error 对应的是 更…..忽略 not appearing to care 应该对应的是显露出他的关切 那么not的翻译跑哪去了呢？

二．his address perfectly unaffected and such as we might expect to meet with in a well-bred man somewhat advanced in years
英文在原文中的 such as ....如写全应该为his address was such as we might expect to meet with in a well-bred man somewhat advanced in years 如再进一步细写出来应该为 his address was such an address that we might expect to meet with in a well-bred man somewhat advanced in years. 即such=such an address 指是这样的东西 这样的讲演 as 则在后面的从句中作宾语 指代前面的address 引导一个定语从句 把其成为两句话就是
his address was such an address
We might expect to meet with an address in a well-bred man somewhat advanced in years
翻译出来就是：他的演讲就是这样的演讲，我们期许有幸碰上这样的讲演 从有教养年长者那
V1他的演讲十分自然，他具有我们可能遇到的年高德劭者的特征。
V2讲演自然而真挚，似我们从略长我们几岁且受过良好教养的长者处期许而来的谆谆叮咛
所以V1这怎么得来后半句的译文 “遇到的”宾语怎么会是年高德劭者？ 请解答

三．while his delivery was as well suited to the communication he had to make as could well have been imagined.
V1正如人们想像的那样，他的表达技巧非常适合于他要从事的沟通。
V2而且，他也尽其所能， 展现出最合宜的讲演风格，来与之必须要达成的交流形成默契。
先来分析这句话 as well suited…. as could …. 此处well修饰suited 将其去掉 即得到 as suited …as could 这是非常明显的类似于以下句式的结构: 尽…..地合适于….
I will finish this as soon as I can/could . 从而可判断出原句写全应该为：
While his delivery was so well suited to the communication he had to make as his delivery could well have been imagined.
再来看时态 as well suited….as his delivery could well have been imagined 是虚拟语气 翻出后半句应该为 尽他的演讲原本可以被很好地(well)想象得到的方式….去很好地适宜于…. 再将被动语态去掉 转换成符合中文习惯的说法 尽量事先使用能想得到的好的方式…去很好地适宜于….
问题在这里就出现了 是谁尽量事先使用能想得到的好的方式…去很好地适宜于他的交流 难道会是听众 肯定不是 一定是演讲者自己 所以加上主语后这句话就成 ： 他（演讲者）尽量事先用能想得到的好的方法去适宜于他必须要作的交流。 再对此句进行加工就变成： 他尽其所能 展现出能想到的好的方式（最合宜的讲演风格），去配合交流（达到默契）。 这也是我怎么得到V2的译文
而V1 中的正如人们想象的那样 显然是把句子理解成…… he had to make as people could well have been imagined 从前面的分析来看 显然不正确

我希望大家在说的时候不要人云亦云 每个人都给出自己见解才行 这样我们才能共同进步

woshijack 2007-12-23 01:26
QUOTE:
引用第182楼may83920于2007-12-22 23:42发表的“”:

Jack, 这里我认为 “好奇”和 “兴趣”是不能替换的。如果说我会为别人对我感兴趣而得意的话，我得意的是“兴趣” 而不是别人对我的好奇（难道我哪里怪怪的？）


您这里说的例子没说在点子上 我把这句话简单翻出来您就会发现： 如果说我会为别人对我感兴趣而得意的话，我得意的是“兴趣” 而不是别人对我的好奇（难道我哪里怪怪的？
If i am proud of others' interest in me , what i am proud of is interest, not peculiar interest.

所以我根本没说 好奇 是可以替换 兴趣   我说的 特别的或是奇怪的兴趣 与 好奇 有相似之处   一般翻译有最基本的三种手段 等化 浅化 深化 金先生采用了完完全全的等化手法 而我则是浅化 所以此处的译文我并无谬误

我个人也并非专业翻译 也非英语专业学生 只是一个中专生而已 翻译只是自己的一种爱好而已 所以肯定会有很多翻得不对的地方 您如果不同意我的解释 没有关系 大家就都各自保持自己的意见 不管怎样 谢谢您提出质疑 质疑让我进步 我喜欢进步 呵呵

大家再来看一个例子: a collar and tie 这是从新概念第三册第四课里 the doulble life of Alfred Blogs 　　书里把它翻成穿衬衫打领带　这是等化译法 如果深化一点 应该指的就是穿正装 而明显书里的直译并不十分准确 同样 peculiar interest 也是如此 并不代表字面的直译 就是最佳答案

suxin108 2007-12-23 11:09
QUOTE:
引用第183楼woshijack于2007-12-23 01:04发表的“”:
一． He did not permit himself to appear conscious that he was an object of peculiar interest in the audience, neither was he guilty of the greater error of not appearing to care whether they were interested or not.
v1他未曾表现出他意识到他是听众特别感到兴趣的人物，他更未曾忽略显露出他的关切，关切听众对他的演讲是否感到兴趣。
V2 他既不让自己感觉到观众对其有好奇之心，也不对那更大的过失感到惭愧，即掩饰自己对听众是否感兴趣的在意之情。
我仔细对照了V1金先生下半句中的译文： 即 neither 对应的是未曾 guilty of the great error 对应的是 更…..忽略 not appearing to care 应该对应的是显露出他的关切 那么not的翻译跑哪去了呢？

.......


只讨论一下第三个句子：

while his delivery was as well suited to the communication he had to make as could well have been imagined.

我改一下，把后半句改成主动：
while his delivery was as well suited to the communication he had to make as people could well have imagined.

觉得people imagine 的对象是how well was his delivery suited to the communication he had to make.

联系上下文，这样理解容易些。

您的理解方式，我想起来很困难，觉得一直也没有抓到您所说的关键处，不知差在哪里。

seclusive 2007-12-23 11:27
QUOTE:
引用第179楼suxin108于2007-12-22 23:10发表的“Re:No. 19 参考译文”:
…while his delivery was as well suited to the communication he had to make as could well have been imagined.
正如人们想像的那样，他的表达技巧非常适合于他要从事的沟通。

这句费解。可否变成：
His delivery was as well suited to the communication he had to make, as well people could have imagined.

总觉得后面这个well多余似的，不知要搁哪儿才好。
.......

<< his delivery was as well suited to the communication he had to make as could well have been imagined. >>

这句中两个well 所修饰的动词并不相同 并非重复

1）第一个well 修饰的是 suited 意为：非常适合

第二个well 修饰的是have been imagined 这里带有“人们充分的想像”之义

2）须要注意的是这句中 两个 as 的用法 第一个as 为副词

第二个as为连词

as (conj.): To the same degree or quantity that. Often used as a correlative after so or as:

You are as sweet as sugar. The situation is not so bad as you suggest.

3）as could well have been imagined

这里的 as 作的是从句主语 这与as 作从句宾语的情况有所不同 前者是种习惯用法 类似的还有

as has been pointed 正如所指出的那样
as has been said before 如上所述
as often happens 如同经常所发生的那样
as might be expected 正如所料
as is well known to all 众所周知

在多数情况下，从句中的谓语助动词可以省略

as explained before 如前面所解释的
as mentioned above 如前面所提到的
as shown in the figure 如图所示
as seen from the table 从表中可以看出
as already discussed 正如已讨论过的

详情参见：as 和 as well 的用法
http://www.zftrans.com/bbs/read.php?tid=15863&page=1&toread=1

seclusive 2007-12-23 12:14
QUOTE:
引用第183楼woshijack于2007-12-23 01:04发表的“”:
三．while his delivery was as well suited to the communication he had to make as could well have been imagined.
V1正如人们想像的那样，他的表达技巧非常适合于他要从事的沟通。
V2而且，他也尽其所能， 展现出最合宜的讲演风格，来与之必须要达成的交流形成默契。
先来分析这句话 as well suited…. as could …. 此处well修饰suited 将其去掉 即得到 as suited …as could 这是非常明显的类似于以下句式的结构: 尽…..地合适于….
I will finish this as soon as I can/could . 从而可判断出原句写全应该为：
While his delivery was so well suited to the communication he had to make as his delivery could well have been imagined.
再来看时态 as well suited….as his delivery could well have been imagined 是虚拟语气 翻出后半句应该为 尽他的演讲原本可以被很好地(well)想象得到的方式….去很好地适宜于…. 再将被动语态去掉 转换成符合中文习惯的说法 尽量事先使用能想得到的好的方式…去很好地适宜于….
.......

delivery (n.): The act or manner of speaking or singing: a folk singer's casual delivery

如前 suxin 妹妹理解的那样 原句第二个as 所指代的是前面的 his delivery was as well suited to the communication he had to make 而不是单指 his delivery

as 这种用法类似于引导非限制定语从句的 which 均指代所提及的整个句子

as 引导这种从句 常常放在句首

woshijack 2007-12-23 12:26
这里的 as 作的是从句主语 这与as 作从句宾语的情况有所不同 前者是种习惯用法 类似的还有

as has been pointed 正如所指出的那样

如果as 此处做从句主语的话 那么这属于定语从句中的一种用法 ， 用as来代替一个句子，如
He is right , as has been pointed
as 在上句话中指代的是 he is right
现在再来分析上面原文：his delivery was as well suited to the communication he had to make as could well have been imagined.
改写一下应为： his delivery was so well suited to the communication he had to make , as could well have been imagied.
第一个as 是副词 表示程度用so 代替了 再翻一下这个句子 就是 他的演讲风格如此贴切于他要做的交流， 正如原来能充分想像得到的那样 前半句是一种描述的口吻 所以应该来自他人的，也就是听众的看法 因为之前我一直不确定的是谁在想像 所以金先生的译文无误 前面我的分析有误   还有两句 让我们再讨论一下

seclusive 2007-12-23 12:41
QUOTE:
引用第183楼woshijack于2007-12-23 01:04发表的“”:
一． He did not permit himself to appear conscious that he was an object of peculiar interest in the audience, neither was he guilty of the greater error of not appearing to care whether they were interested or not.
v1他未曾表现出他意识到他是听众特别感到兴趣的人物，他更未曾忽略显露出他的关切，关切听众对他的演讲是否感到兴趣。
V2 他既不让自己感觉到观众对其有好奇之心，也不对那更大的过失感到惭愧，即掩饰自己对听众是否感兴趣的在意之情。
我仔细对照了V1金先生下半句中的译文： 即 neither 对应的是未曾 guilty of the great error 对应的是 更…..忽略 not appearing to care 应该对应的是显露出他的关切 那么not的翻译跑哪去了呢？
.......

He did not permit himself to appear conscious

注意这里 appear 的意思：看起来

He did not permit himself to appear conscious 的意思是：他不会让自己看起来（显示出）他感觉到…… ≠ 既不让自己感觉到

演讲者 肯定知道 自己是听众关注的对象 但演讲时 如果表现出来 则会使演讲显得做作 这是演讲的基本技巧

前面已讨论过 be guilty of 意为：有……之罪/过失

be guilty of a crime：犯了罪

have a guilty conscience：问心有愧

要注意这里的 be guilty of 中的 guilty 和汉语的“惭愧”并不等同

guilty (adj.):

1) Responsible for or chargeable with a reprehensible act; deserving of blame; culpable:

guilty of cheating; the guilty party.

2) Suffering from or prompted by a sense of guilt:

a guilty conscience

guilty 表示“惭愧”等意时 常和 conscience 连用

而在 be guilty of 这个短语里 guilty 取的是上面第1）义

原句 guilty of the great error 指的是“犯大错”而不是“对大错感到愧疚”

金先生 对这句的转换手法 是分拆成两个短句 即将 suxin 妹妹译文中破折号后面的文字单独列成一个短句 使之更合乎汉语的表达 更易读 我觉得没有什么难以理解之处

woshijack 2007-12-23 12:58
Appear 在此处是我漏译 加上去 他既不让自己看上去感觉到观众对其有好奇之心 可之前讨论的不是我的这个appear
Guilty后查了字典 是错译了 但我更想知道的是 后面的那个not 哪去了 要知道 not appearing to care …不能等同于…..appearing not to care …..

seclusive 2007-12-23 13:11
QUOTE:
引用第181楼woshijack于2007-12-22 23:25发表的“”:
V2：他既不让自己感觉到观众对其有好奇之心，也不对那更大的过失感到惭愧，即掩饰自己对听众是否感兴趣的在意之情。
注意看这句话的译文：此处我并没有把conscious 错解成 curious ,此处我只是把conscious处理为“感觉到” 感觉到就是意识到 好奇之心其实是对peculiar interest的翻译 peculiar 通常指的是 特别的 奇怪的 所以peculiar interest 的意思就是特别的或奇怪的兴趣 也就是好奇 对奇怪别致的东西特别有兴趣
.......

原文: << He did not permit himself to appear conscious that he was an object of peculiar interest in the audience, neither was he guilty of the greater error of not appearing to care whether they were interested or not. >>

Mr. woshijack 对 interest 的理解有一定道理 这里的 interest 也含有“好奇”之义

interest: A state of curiosity or concern about or attention to something: an interest in sports

在原文语境中 peculiar interest 指听众对演讲者特别关注 转换成汉语 如前所示 有：特别感兴趣/关注的焦点

转换成“特别好奇”单从这句文字来看 也可以 其和“特别感兴趣”有一定区别 后者所带的主观色彩要浅些 因为这是描述演讲者和听众 我觉得“特别感兴趣”显得较为中性

suxin108 2007-12-23 13:24
QUOTE:
引用第186楼seclusive于2007-12-23 11:27发表的“Re:Re:No. 19 参考译文”:

<< his delivery was as well suited to the communication he had to make as could well have been imagined. >>

这句中两个well 所修饰的动词并不相同 并非重复

.......


嗯，谢谢，把后面的well当作修饰imagine的，不跟其他混在一起想就能明白了。


No. 20 圣诞 英译汉短文练习

The Pilgrims celebrated their first American harvest in October 1621, their first autumn on the New Continent. Their Indian guests were seated around tables of game, fish, fruit, corn-bread and vegetables from their own gardens. Of course, wild turkey was in bountiful supply as the new settlers found "great stores" of the bird around Plymouth.
1621年10月，在新大陆迎来第一个秋天的清教徒移民，庆祝他们第一次美式丰收。他们的印第安客人围坐在餐桌旁，桌上摆满了野味、鱼、水果、玉米面包，还有从他们自己菜园里摘来的蔬菜。当然野火鸟的供应非常充足，因为新殖民者发现普利茅斯这一带这种火鸡“储备丰厚”。

The year following the first feast the settlers held no celebration. A long drought withered the crops in the fields and only the arrival of a supply ship saved the colonists from starvation. The governor appointed a day of "public thanksgiving" but this also differed from what we now know as Thanksgiving because there was no feast following the church service.
第一次庆丰宴之后接下来的那年，这些殖民者没有举行庆祝。由于长久的干旱，地里的庄稼颗粒无收，殖民地居民仅靠外来的一船供给品维生。当地统治者虽然指定一天为“公共感恩日”，但这依然有别于现在我们所知的感恩节，因为在礼拜活动过后并无庆宴。

Although there were feasts, fasts and "thanksgiving days" every year, it was not until ten years later that a festival similar to today's was recorded. The record tells of a town meeting in the meetinghouse with psalm singing, prayer and a sermon. After the service the settlers went about "making merry."
尽管后来每年也有庆宴、斋戒、“感恩日”，但直到十年之后才有类似于今天节日的记录。记录上记载了在礼拜堂召开的小镇集会，内容包括唱圣歌、祈祷、布道。这些活动过后殖民者开始“制造快乐”。

For years the festival was an almost uniquely New England institution, being observed in churches with sermons containing a highly political message. The day slowly spread to the Western and Southern states, where each established its own day of observance. For more than 100 years the festival was celebrated on different days by the different states. It wasn't until President Lincoln proclaimed the last Thursday in November as a day of national thanksgiving that the whole country celebrated Thanksgiving on the same day.
这个节日几乎是作为新英格兰的独特习俗沿袭了多年，庆祝活动在教堂里进行，包括布道，并在此过程中传递高层政治信息。后来，这个节日渐渐传播到西部和南部各州，他们纷纷确定了自己的庆祝日。之后一百多年，各州都分别在不同的日子庆祝这个节日。直到林肯总统宣布，把十一月的最后一个星期四定为全国的感恩日，整个美国才开始在同一天庆祝感恩节。

That tradition was followed by every president until 1939. When President Roosevelt named the next to last Thursday in November as the date of celebration. Roosevelt's wish to lengthen the time between Christmas and Thanksgiving was changed back to the fourth Thursday by a congressional resolution in 1941.
接下来的每任总统都沿袭着这个传统，直至1939年，罗斯福总统把十一月的倒数第二个星期四定为庆祝日。罗斯福总统此举是希望延长圣诞节和感恩节之间的间隔，但1941年的国会决议又把这个节日改回到第四个星期四了。

seclusive 2007-12-23 13:35
QUOTE:
引用第190楼woshijack于2007-12-23 12:58发表的“”:
Appear 在此处是我漏译 加上去 他既不让自己看上去感觉到观众对其有好奇之心 可之前讨论的不是我的这个appear
Guilty后查了字典 是错译了 但我更想知道的是 后面的那个not 哪去了 要知道 not appearing to care …不能等同于…..appearing not to care …..

QUOTE:
引用第183楼woshijack于2007-12-23 01:04发表的“”:
一． He did not permit himself to appear conscious that he was an object of peculiar interest in the audience, neither was he guilty of the greater error of not appearing to care whether they were interested or not.
v1他未曾表现出他意识到他是听众特别感到兴趣的人物，他更未曾忽略显露出他的关切，关切听众对他的演讲是否感到兴趣。
V2 他既不让自己感觉到观众对其有好奇之心，也不对那更大的过失感到惭愧，即掩饰自己对听众是否感兴趣的在意之情。
我仔细对照了V1金先生下半句中的译文： 即 neither 对应的是未曾 guilty of the great error 对应的是 更…..忽略 not appearing to care 应该对应的是显露出他的关切 那么not的翻译跑哪去了呢？
.......

请恕我直言 Mr. woshijack 在这句的理解上有点钻牛角尖

金先生的这句译文 不是逐字转换 所以您之前所云的 << neither 对应的是未曾 guilty of the great error 对应的是 更…..忽略 not appearing to care 应该对应的是显露出他的关切 >> 并不成立

neither was he guilty of the greater error of 的字面义：他也不会犯更大的错误

not appearing to care whether they were interested or not：没有表现出关心听众是否对演讲内容感兴趣

两个结构连起来的字面意思就是：也不会犯没有表现出关心听众是否对演讲内容感兴趣的更大错误

这样说 在汉语的书面语或口语里 都是不太常见的 因为汉语讲究简短精巧 所以这句原文 金先生 采用了较多的意译手法 将 neither was he guilty of the greater error of not appearing to 直接转换为“他更未曾忽略显露出他的关切”其意和原文意是相通的 这并不难理解

这里的“忽略”应该算是译者添加的词 在原文里找不到对应的结构 而译者未将 guilty of the greater error 按字面译出 采用了省略手法

翻译长句时 采用增补和删减技巧 在论坛上有许多相关资料 请诸位查阅

woshijack 2007-12-23 14:05
QUOTE:
引用第193楼seclusive于2007-12-23 13:35发表的“”:

请恕我直言 Mr. woshijack 在这句的理解上有点钻牛角尖

金先生的这句译文 不是逐字转换 所以您之前所云的 << neither 对应的是未曾 guilty of the great error 对应的是 更…..忽略 not appearing to care 应该对应的是显露出他的关切 >> 并不成立

.......


其实我的观点是　觉得金先生的译文　是在译appearing not to care ....而不是在译not appearing to care ...的原文 而其他几位译友在翻这个地方的时候 都是译成appearing not to care ..... 而我前面也说过 appearing not to care ....不等于not appearing to care ....
好的 谢谢seclusive

seclusive 2007-12-23 14:36
QUOTE:
引用第183楼woshijack于2007-12-23 01:04发表的“”:
二．his address perfectly unaffected and such as we might expect to meet with in a well-bred man somewhat advanced in years
英文在原文中的 such as ....如写全应该为his address was such as we might expect to meet with in a well-bred man somewhat advanced in years 如再进一步细写出来应该为 his address was such an address that we might expect to meet with in a well-bred man somewhat advanced in years. 即such=such an address 指是这样的东西 这样的讲演 as 则在后面的从句中作宾语 指代前面的address 引导一个定语从句 把其成为两句话就是
his address was such an address
We might expect to meet with an address in a well-bred man somewhat advanced in years
翻译出来就是：他的演讲就是这样的演讲，我们期许有幸碰上这样的讲演 从有教养年长者那
V1他的演讲十分自然，他具有我们可能遇到的年高德劭者的特征。
V2讲演自然而真挚，似我们从略长我们几岁且受过良好教养的长者处期许而来的谆谆叮咛
所以V1这怎么得来后半句的译文 “遇到的”宾语怎么会是年高德劭者？ 请解答
......

<< 原文：whereas his costume was perfectly plain, the expression of his face grave and earnest, his address perfectly unaffected and such as we might expect to meet with in a well-bred man somewhat advanced in years.
V1：但是，相反的是他衣着十分朴素，面部的表情严肃而诚挚，他的演讲十分自然，他具有我们可能遇到的年高德劭者的特征。>>

1）这句里 the expression of his face grave and earnest, his address perfectly unaffected ... 均是独立主格结构 完整的句子为

the expression of his face was grave and earnest and his address was perfectly unaffected ...

2）advanced in years: 年老的，上了年纪的

a well-bred man somewhat advanced in years 译成“年高德劭者”是较洗炼的转换

原文前面提到这位演讲者是 so old a person

这里的 advanced in years 应是“年老的”而非“略长我们几岁”

3）such as...：象……那样的

其中的such为代词 意为“这样的人或物”as为连词 在从句中作宾语 例如

This book is not such as I expect.
这不是一本我所希望的书。

He told me of his experience such as I had never had before.
他给我讲了他的经验，我从来没有那种经验。

I have not many, but I will send you such as I have.
我有的不多，但我愿把我所有的都送给你。

原句相当于如下句子

<< his address was such as we might expect to meet with in a well-bred man somewhat advanced in years. >>

address: A formal speech.

这里的 such 表示 such an address

如前 Mr. woshijack 所分析 这句的字面意思为：他的演讲就如我们可能指望在年长而有教养者那儿遇到的那样。

如前面关于最后一句的讨论 这句按字面翻译 不太合乎汉语的行文习惯 故而 V1采用了较多的意译 将较长的句子转换成了短句 （句子主语 宾语都和原句字面意不同）

连贯整句来看 << V1：但是，相反的是他衣着十分朴素，面部的表情严肃而诚挚，他的演讲十分自然，他具有我们可能遇到的年高德劭者的特征。>> 这种转换比较自然

在这种转换中 用“他”和“可能遇到的年高德劭者”来诠释原文的“his address”“might expect to meet with such an address”表面看起来 是矛盾的 但从全句意思上来体会 我觉得是完全可以的

这里的 such 译成“期许而来的谆谆叮咛”不是很好 因为这里的such 是表示 a well-bred man somewhat advanced in years 讲话时的方式 风度 等许多因素 用“谆谆叮咛”来译这层意思 显得过于单薄 而 金先生用“特征”来诠释 such 的内容 则涵盖的范围和原意相通

seclusive 2007-12-23 14:46
QUOTE:
引用第194楼woshijack于2007-12-23 14:05发表的“”:
其实我的观点是　觉得金先生的译文　是在译appearing not to care ....而不是在译not appearing to care ...的原文 而其他几位译友在翻这个地方的时候 都是译成appearing not to care ..... 而我前面也说过 appearing not to care ....不等于not appearing to care ....
好的 谢谢seclusive

就原文而言 我觉得 您上面列出的两种否定 一种否定 appearing 另一种否定后面的不定式 所传达的意思并没有太大分别

原文没有采用后一种否定（否定不定式）是为了加强语气 表示“他的演讲完全没有犯这种错”

用“他更未曾忽略显露出他的关切”来传递这层语气 我觉得完全可以

suxin108 2007-12-23 15:01
QUOTE:
引用第194楼woshijack于2007-12-23 14:05发表的“”:


其实我的观点是　觉得金先生的译文　是在译appearing not to care ....而不是在译not appearing to care ...的原文 而其他几位译友在翻这个地方的时候 都是译成appearing not to care ..... 而我前面也说过 appearing not to care ....不等于not appearing to care ....
好的 谢谢seclusive


原句是：
He did not permit himself to appear conscious that he was an object of peculiar interest in the audience, neither was he guilty of the greater error of not appearing to care whether they were interested or not.

appear是个系动词，跟seem有点象的。把上句简化后：

He appears to care whether they were interested or not.

这句话的否定式：

He does not appear to care whether they were interested or not.

He appears not to care whether they were interested or not.

但两句的意思是没什么区别的。

英语的否定是有些跟汉语习惯不同的地方，有时候是要校正一下自己第一眼看时的印象。

我觉得您说的两句英语意思没有区别。

seclusive 2007-12-23 17:05
QUOTE:
引用第180楼may83920于2007-12-22 23:22发表的“”:

您的解说，详尽真切。大师风范，让我无比敬佩！翻译学习的路上，有您指点，我倍受鼓舞！   Much appreciated!

惭愧 与论坛上无数能人高士相比 己实不敢当 大师称谓

我觉得 有益的讨论可以让疑问更加明白 我的理解有时也不一定正确

Mr. woshijack 经过仔细思索后 勇于提出自己的见解 有理有据说明为何要如此理解 我觉得这种精神很好 即使理解有误 通过讨论澄清 从而知其所以然 下次遇到同样的问题 就很明了 而不会似是而非

同时 提倡大家在讨论时 一定要多思考 多查阅相关资料 而不是完全凭感觉 网络的最大优点即是资源异常丰富 获得资源十分方便 有不少问题 通过多查互联网上的教学信息 认真分析后 是完全可以解决的

古云 博学 审问 慎思 明辨 笃行 是做学问的准则 因此 慎思后提出疑问 再以事实为依据进行明辨 这样 我们就可以知其然 亦知其所以然 起到 举一反三 的效果 这种学习也不会变得呆板 教条

学习任何一门知识或技能 打下牢固基础总是很重要 通过以上探讨 我发觉自己有些基础知识掌握得并不牢 这些知识大部分是在高中学的 那种学习主要是为了应付考试 往往是死记硬背语法规则 然落实到具体翻译时理解复杂句子 则显得捉襟见肘 派不上用场

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论坛前不久曾讨论过 一篇关于人物描写的文字 出自翻译专业试题（广东外语外贸大学 高级翻译学院 2006年攻读硕士学位研究生入学复试笔试试卷）

大家不妨做一做 看自己理解得如何

http://www.zftrans.com/bbs/read.php?tid=15436&fpage=&toread=&page=1

seclusive 2007-12-23 19:56
按：这是篇讲述感恩节的文字 错弄成 圣诞了 直到看译文才发觉 有点滑稽

译者：金陵 先生

译注：本译文原以笔名发表于科见美语杂志1989.11.1第13期

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感恩节之由来

移民美洲的英国清教徒，在一六二一年十月举行他们抵达后的第一个丰年庆，也是他们在新大陆的第一个秋天。他们邀请印第安人来家作客，大家一起围桌而坐，桌上食物有猎物、鱼类、水果、玉蜀黍面包以及自己菜园里的蔬菜。不用说，野生火鸡多的是。这些新来的移民发觉普里茅斯四周到处都是火鸡。

第二年他们没有举行丰年庆，因为长期干旱，田里的农作物全都枯萎了。所幸补给船只运来粮食，他们才没饿死。州长因此指定补给船抵达的那天为「大众感恩」的日子。不过，这个感恩的日子和我们现在所了解的「感恩节」不同，因为当时教堂礼拜之后，没有感恩节大餐。

虽然此后每年此日都设有大餐、斋戒和「感恩日子」，但是十年之后，类似现在感恩节的节庆开始举行了。根据记载，当时有一个小镇的镇民聚集在聚会所里，唱赞美诗、祷告，并聆听牧师讲道。礼拜之后，移民四处行走「作乐」以庆祝感恩节。

这种感恩的庆典在新英格兰地区行之多年，也几乎是新英格兰地区独特的习俗。庆典都是在各教堂以讲道的方式进行。讲道的内容含有高度的政治信息。感恩节慢慢扩散到美国西部和南部各州，只是各州自订感恩的日子。各州自行庆祝自订的感恩节，有一百多年的历史。后来，林肯总统宣布每年十一月的最后一个星期四为全美国的感恩节，从此美国全国各地才在同一天庆祝感恩节。

此一常规为往后美国每一位总统所遵从，但是到了一九三九年，罗斯福总统则指定每年十一月的倒数第二个星期四为感恩节。罗斯福总统的目的是为了拉长感恩节与圣诞节之间的距离，但是一九四一年美国国会决议改回为十一月的第四个星期四。

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在金陵先生的译文中 使用了不少所谓的技巧 比如

重复：主要是为了使文字流畅 因为英文里有些搭配放到汉语里则不太通 如 the arrival of a supply ship saved the colonists/ A long drought withered the crops

省略：The year following the first feast

增补：The governor appointed a day of "public thanksgiving"

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这段文字总体上 句子结构比较简单 少有长句 大体意思理解起来不太困难 翻译重点是如何准确流畅地转换为汉语书面文字 另外值得注意的是某些词在语境里的准确理解

1）Pilgrim: One of the English Separatists who founded the colony of Plymouth in New England in 1620.

注意原文 Pilgrim 的首字母大写 是专有名词 特指：1620年移居美洲的英国清教徒

2）institution: 制度；惯例；风俗

A custom, practice, relationship, or behavioral pattern of importance in the life of a community or society

the institutions of marriage and the family

3）game：[总称]猎物，野味

(1) Wild animals, birds, or fish hunted for food or sport.

(2) The flesh of these animals, eaten as food.

game preserve：野生动物保护区，禁猎区

4）observe (vt.): 纪念；庆祝（节日、生日等）

To keep or celebrate (a holiday, for example):

observe an anniversary.


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